Why don’t people reach out to “Dirk Bosmans, Director General PEGI S.A.”?
PEGI isn’t a living creature. PEGI isn’t giving out biased ratings. It’s the people working there, and the person in charge. Actual people that actually exist here on this planet with us. “Talking” to a company is imaginary bullshit.
Would love to see thr EFF branch out and take this on. Great opportunity to set precedence.
I recently played it. If anything I think it has a subtle anti-gambling message.
The more hands you play, the more you realize you can’t actually win without “cheating”
Play it like poker? Congrats, you’re fucked, you literally cannot win against the blind.
Stack the deck in your favorite with creative use of Joker cards and a few dozen extra aces? The game becomes trivial
If the game teaches you anything it’s that if you play by the rules, the house will ALWAYS win.
I just played it last night, and then again today with my kids watching. I explained how the hands are scored, and they seemed to get the gist of it.
It has absolutely nothing to do with gambling. You don’t wager anything, there’s no opponents, and the terminology is all different, for example:
- blind - in poker, it’s a forced bet based on sitting position from the dealer; in Balatro, it’s where you’re at in the “level” (and only the “boss blind” is required)
- ante - in poker, it’s the minimum bet to participate; in Balatro, it’s the level you’re on
- hand - in poker, it’s the cards you are dealt, and you play them all; in Balatro, it’s a scoring action, and you only play a subset of your cards in a given “hand”
And so on. The only thing that’s actually similar is the hand scoring system, but you mess with that as well with buffs and whatnot. Balatro will make you a worse poker player, and not even teach you the rules.
I don’t think it’s anti-gambling, it has nothing to do with gambling. It’s like saying solitaire and blackjack are similar because they both use playing cards…
This post is clearly full of people WHO CLEARLY HAVE NO GAMBLING PROBLEM.
The arguments are even more ridiculous if you substitute an addictive drug for gambling.
“But vicodin and oxy are legal, how’s that fair!” “Plenty of kids are prescribed painkillers in other countries and they are fine!” “The regulatory agency is just trying to punish heroin for being way better than the rest!” “I think all drugs should be legal, anyone should be allowed to make whatever mistakes they want with no oversight!”
I have seen people burn money in games just as much as some who has gambling problems. Just one has the person expectations being hoping if earning more to continue to gamble with, while gamers who spend cash are looking for more extrinsic values that are still just as useless or not worth it. I do say these game devs are more deserving of the cash but loot boxes exist and others forms of gambling that gets a blind eye. Balatro isn’t even real cash. It’s not the same.
I simply wouldnt give one game a pass to avoid hypocrisy. The loot box games should be marked for adults or changed.
I think there are dynamics at play her but to keep it short. I admire your steadfast disappointment towards gambling or playing with odds. However, for a game like balatro being completely free to continue playing after the initial purchase. As far as I can tell, there are no micro transactions or push for players to sink their wallets into the game. The entire game is basically a simulation. All randomizations are predetermined based on a seed. You can set it or you can figure it out if you are smart enough in math and cryptography. However, ratings are more annoyance than being a real guard against the real problems happening right now.
There are many more dissatisfying things. I doubt we should fight over the rating. Instead we should be in agreement that gambling and other pay to play odds like loot boxes is bad and stricter regulations.
Its not about real money spending. Loot boxes would be problematic without spending real money in my opinion. Thats why I think poker games that dont use any real money should also be marked for adults.
Unfortunately balatro uses poker as a base, and I dont think its changed it enough that it still doesnt resemble poker.
Im surprised the loot boxes in ea games are still around, did the rating organization comment on that at all?
We can all imagine the imagery of balatro being somewhat a problem.
But less of a problem compared to games with actual gambling for actual money in the form of lootboxes or gacha mechanisms?
If you can get that to make sense, i’d love to hear it. Can there be a serious warning regarding gambling on balatro? for sure. But how is gambling imagery 18+, and actual gambling with actual money 3+? That’s just insane.
What is most likely to get kids to become gambling addicts? Them learning pokerhands via balatro, or them gambling real money on lootboxes & gacha games and getting addicted to the thrill of winning after gamblling money?
No that part is very hypocritical, and I’m sure it has a lot to do with how much money the big game developers can throw around to make sure their loot box game isnt marked for adults.
I think both lootboxes and poker games are bad in this sense, its just the other reasons people are giving that are nonsense.
To say clearly, the rating board is hypocritical and should also mark lootbox games accordingly.
Have you ever played balatro?
Because calling it a pokergame makes me think you haven’t. It’s a deckbuilder that uses pokerhands (and impossible pokerhands) as mechanic to score, but there is no actual gambling, and except for which hands exist in poker and their relative value, you don’t learn any pokerskills. You also don’t do any gambling, you modify your deck of cards, and gather jokers that modify what cards are worth and how they score, and end up also making hands that are impossible in poker etc…
I can imagine the imagery and the link to poker to require some warning, but i’d find it hard to say it stimulates you to gamble, as it’s not a gambling game, doesn’t teach you the poker rules, and is a completely different kind of game. It just uses poker to flavor the gameplay, and uses some other poker terms (blinds, ante, chips) to indicate difficulty/score.
I dont disagree with what you brought up but you left out that the game literally looks similar to any general poker gambling site.
Its poker with a twist, which absolutely exists in casinos.
It does? I guess we’ll differ on that opinion i guess.
Unless showing you a hand of playingcards means you look like a general poker gambling site. It has a very specific artstyle, and since its gameplay is completely different from actual poker, so is how it behaves. For me it’s close to a slay the spire or heartstone kind of game, and looks like that…
But this is like saying “ski ball is dangerous because it’s a gateway to beer pong. By the way we see no issues with kids playing vodka pong”
Its bad because children will associate poker with a good enjoyable time, which might lead them to a bad situation later on when they are permitted inside casinos.
I consider most arcades with ticket prizes to be gambling as well, and shouldnt be for kids. Most kids dont realize they could have just bought the prize for far cheaper.
And yes vodka pong is bad too, go yell at the rich vodka corporatists who paid the rating board to pass them though.
I’ll give you a tip, nearly all certification or rating boards are grifts.
This is sequence, a simple game where you place chips on the spaces that match the cards on your hand. The objective of the game is to complete 2 lines that are 5 chips long. Basically like connect 4. Do you think it should also be rated 18+?
By that logic Yahtzee teaches kids dice are fun and trains them to think craps is fun.
I’d rather have kids get interested in playing poker than pulling a slot machine lever.
Id rather neither, I can’t think of a single good thing that would come of teaching a child poker.
Doesn’t matter in the slightest.
me, age 12, San Andreas
18 is the highest rating. It’s equivalent to the ESRB “AO” rating, and many storefronts will not sell it, period.
Doesn’t matter to a kid with a phone and unlimited time and willpower. I know with 100% certainty, if I was 16 and wanted to play Balatro, I wouldn’t be talking to you, I’d have an .apk already.
Storefront? Lmao.
Piracy being the only way to get a game isn’t beneficial to the dev, and Balatro is the kind of game that deserves our money. It could have easily been jammed to the gill with paid boosts premium decks, etc, but instead, they just made a good game.
I went looking for a patreon or donation page… Guys who get hit with this should just go that route. He doesn’t have a general one up.
We can’t control the bullshit, but we can side-step it.
Tell me you are corrupted to the core, without telling me you are corrupted to the core.
I wish this trend would die out. Tell me your x without telling me your x is so fucking pretentious and annoying.
Pretentious though?
Pretentious - attempting to impress by affecting greater importance, talent, culture, etc., than is actually possessed.
Yes.
You and I have wildly different associations with this construct.
To me it sounds like silly phrasing. Just another version of “doth protest”
Tell me you’re on the internet too much without telling me you’re on the internet too much.
He’s JustAnIdiot. PlsIgnore.
The reasoning in question:
This game teaches - by way of images, information and gameplay - skills and knowledge that are used in poker. During gameplay, the player is rewarded with ‘chips’ for playing certain hands. The player is able to access a list of poker hand names. As the player hovers over these poker hands, the game explains what types of cards the player would need in order to play certain hands. As the game goes on, the player becomes increasingly familiar with which hands would earn more points. Because these are hands that exist in the real world, this knowledge and skill could be transferred to a real-life game of poker
So, this game teaches skills and knowledge that are used in poker. The skills in knowledge are limited to… playing and making poker hands. That’s it. Also, “as the game goes on, the player becomes increasingly familiar with which hands would earn more points” – is hilariously funny. The idea that knowledge of what a poker hand is is anything related to the dangers of gambling is ridiculous.
I wonder what they rated Pavlov VR, ya know the FPS game in VR that forces you to handle guns the way they would in real life and is popular with ex-military because of their transferrable skills?
My thief archer build in Morrowind and Skyrim lead me to a life of thievery and now I’m serving a life sentence at maxium security prison. Very sound logic.
It’s really dumb if you know the two games (poker and Balatro).
Poker is a game of incomplete information where you need one single higher ranked hand than him per round. The stakes are money you bet that your hand is better. Bluffing is an important part of the game.
Balatro is mostly a game with complete information (apart from the order of remaining cards in your deck and certain bosses that flip your cards). You bet no money. There is no bluffing. Money does not correlate to chips. It is about the rating of your hand (poker has no rating, only relative ranking). You play multiple hands. You can’t fold. Cards can be improved, ratings can be improved, the decks can look nothing like poker decks, etc.
I keep pulling the hermit card out of my tarot deck, but it hasn’t doubled my money! Have I learned incorrectly??
One “teaches” you to gamble, the other allows you to gamble. And the one that just teaches you has a higher rating. Crazy.
Totally his fault for not heeding the ancient warning.
Give a man a fish, you get PEGI 3+. Teach a man to fish, 18+ you sucker.
I know this is anecdotal but I’m now living in a ditch because of Balatro. I never gambled before in my life and all the poker knowledge Balatro me taught caused me to start extreme gambling and now I’m dead in a ditch.
Pics or it didn’t happen.
Can’t. I’m a little too dead for pics
Yup that checks out. Say hi to Betty White for me!
have some passerby take the picutres, you dummdumm
Ok, I’ll believe you this time…
As the game goes on, the poker hands also get increasingly unrealistic and different from real poker including things like five of a kind, and a pair being worth more than a royal flush.
If you tried to take the skills you learn from balatro to a poker table you would get kicked out basically immediately.
I place a torn up joker on the table, a tarot card, a llanowar elf card, and a pair of threes
“So with my score multiplier basically I own the casino.”
The dealer frantically calls security
“I’m sorry, the Llanowar Elves are banned, you should keep up with the meta” Activates the Pot of Greed and draw two.
I’ve never gambled, but I’m pretty sure if I got 1.630e11 chips at a casino, something bad would happen to me, the casino, and the economy if I cashed it out. I think that’s 84 billion chips…
Times are different now, there’s no more turning up in a ditch. If you start winning too often, they’re gonna keep an eye on you and try to determine if you’re cheating. If you’re not, they’re gonna ask you to leave and ban you from the casino before you can actually win anything significant — the justification given is that it’s their casino and they can refuse entry to whoever they want. If you are cheating, then you’re just going to jail.
It’s 163 Billion chips.
1.630e11 is the same as 1.630 x 10^11
Which probably wouldn’t be that bad for the economy, but it might bankrupt the casino, depending on the value of the chips.
“Sir, you can’t bring stone slabs to the table and play them as if they were cards. Also, where did these glass shards come from?”
What does this mean practically? Are they not allowed to sell it some places anymore if it’s 18+?
Theoretically stores in Europe are forbidden from selling 18+ games to underage customers.
Practically, almost no one follows this. Although digital storefronts like Steam do, some parents do, and more importantly there could be age restrictions on Youtube and Twitch gameplays.
Maybe if they decide to make box copies of the game.
Seems like an advertising opportunity. First solitaire game rated 18+ without any gambling, I assume no nudity, language, etc.
There’s actually lots of foul language while playing Balatro, but it all comes from the person playing, not the game itself.
You didn’t ask the question the ea way.
You’re supposed to ask with a hefty bribe.
Don’t need a bribe when EA is the one on the board doing the ratings.
Any proof of this?
Is the rating purely because it uses playing cards? Poker hands?
Yahtzee and literal poker with betting are included in Nintendo clubhouse/worldwide 51 and it’s rated Pegi-12.
Would balatro get a pass if it used cards numbered 1-13 instead of traditional cards?
This whole thing is bonkers.
Anyone can walk into a store and buy a deck of cards.
I bet the gift shop of any casino in Las Vegas would sell a souvenir deck of cards to a kid without a second thought.
Kmart and target both sell literal “poker kits” with decks of cards and chips with no restriction on who can buy it. In the toy section with the other board games no less.
Where the fuck are you going to Kmart?
He’s Australian, Kmart is still fully operational in kangaroo land
The logical conclusion is that Australia isn’t just “down under,” it’s the underworld where call failed American chains go after they die.
Let’s go to Venture!
Okay then, how does Hungry Jacks fit into that chain of logic?
Well, the burgers are better at hungry jacks!
Burger King just hasn’t died yet.
Baltaro devs may need to invest in gambling to earn enough money to bribe PEGI the way EA almost certainly does.
What do you mean, almost? EA is literally a member of Video Games Europe, the organization which manages PEGI.
So, we’re moving on from bribery and straight to conflict of interest?
This is the case for both PEGI and ESRB, they are insider operated organizations developed to skirt regulations in the form of ‘self governance’.
Actual gambling - 3+
Suggestion of gambling - 18+
there are actual poker games that are rated lower than 18 too.
IRL poker cards from the dollar store - !
The queen of hearts is inherently obscene, that’s why my copy of Alice in Wonderland is rated 18+
If you search for “poker” on PEGI’s site, it seems that many games which are actually about simulated gambling are rated 12 or 16. They seem to think Balatro is more likely to expose children to realistic gambling than, say, Prominence Poker or Pure Hold’em World Poker Championship, which seems completely bizarre, given that those games are about playing poker and Balatro is a fancy kind of solitaire with no betting.
It’s clearly market manipulation.
The pathetic thing is games of the ilk of balatro and luck be a landlord (also OG peggle) are actually the kind of game that plays with your gambling impulses but in a healthy and fun way, these games should be celebrated for subverting the language of gambling to make something beautiful, how pathetic to have so little actual understanding of video games and yet have this kind of power to impact the industry.
I’ve always suspected I might be susceptible to gambling addiction so I stay out of casinos.
Instead, I go to the arcade. Which is like a low stakes child casino. Win a bunch of tickets and then either buy something stupid with them, or, just straight give them to some kid.
My point being, we’ve specifically constructed casino-like facilities for children and it’s regularly accepted, so why should Balatro be different?
There’s a scam to steal money from kids in pretty much every grocery store near where I live. We call them claw machines.
Gambling at an arcade is exactly the same. All you’ve done is lower the stakes so hopefully it couldn’t affect you.
Yeah how dare you pay $9.99 one time to gamble all you want! If you’re gonna get those dopamine hits, you better be spending real money at the tables!
First time I’ve seen someone mention Luck be a Landlord. Really fun game.
The thing you have to understand about PEGI is that they are mentally challenged.
Please don’t use folk’s medical condition as an insult.
You’d have to shut me up and push me out.
You shouldn’t, you’ve already lost enough allies.
Bro, they politely asked you not to use potentially hurtful language in an open forum.
Is that really how you react in the real world of someone says “I don’t like that, please stop?” Because that’s some abuser-coded behavior right there
coded
You’ll never successfully change the world like this. This kind of language demonstrably does nothing for you. We all know you believe “the common clay” should shut up and speak through filters approved by you and yours. Fuck you.
You ruined the culture of the left. You changed it from the side of union men to the side of flamboyant, sensitive baristas. To the point that you lost a lot of the vote even from unionized workers.
Lose everything in the next 4 years.
Dude you realize English is not a static language right? You’re making an ass out of yourself.
changed it from the side of union men to the side of flamboyant, sensitive baristas.
Lol based
Mate, they made a joke. Kinda like the ones the celebrated George Carlin made.
That was not a joke. That was a serious request.
Please stop pretending to be offended on other people’s behalf simply to draw attention to yourself
Y’all bots?
Wow, I rarely expect to find comments like this on Lemmy. Keep it up!
I’m willing to bet PEGI was lobbied to push for that 18+ rating by ea and other publishers because balatro is taking revenue from them. They don’t get how a game without microtransactions is doing better than they are
No need to lobby, EA are the ones making the decision
