When given a choice between a millitary industrial neoliberal with a rainbow voting base and a fascist who is one elon musk golf session away from banning HRT, the best option is certainly not to refuse to play out of protest
Honestly I’ve got a lot of hopes that overseas citizens will mail in so as to upset the polls.
It’s so easy to fuck our registration, I wouldn’t bet on it.
This is what’s in Alex Jones’ dreams
I vote Jagmeet Singh
Honestly we just had an election where I live where the options were (not to this extreme at all) but pretty similar in the “not great” vs “fucking awful” choices. Of course we had an actual third party with good policies but they had no chance. The race was so close here that in some areas the difference in votes was in the hundreds for the top two choices. They’re still doing recounts and I guess we’ll see, but every single fucking vote has counted on this.
I honestly don’t believe that not voting is ever going to work. If we want change we need an actual fucking revolution. Not voting, in American’s case, would just allow for the literal militants to take over and then you really won’t even have the choice to protest anything in the future.
We need to focus on prefigurative politics, I.e, build the world we want to see with direct action, unionizing, and mutual aid, since voting and governments are never going to do it for us.
However, who is in charge of your country will make those prefigurative politics more or less hard, or even impossible (can’t imagine much of the above going on in Nazi Germany…)
I think it goes without saying that it will be less hard under Harris.
If you keep voting for the lesser evil rather than destroying this fucked system, eventually your choices will be between a fascist and a fascist. Y’all would rather waste time delaying the inevitable, rather than working to disempower and destroy these exploitative and oppressive systems.
Hey now, let’s be fair. It’s not just ashes, it’s also going to be blood. And between 2 and 3 of the 4 cats are literal Nazis.
Guys guys if we just vote for the genocidal cop it will fix our problems, I promise. It will be different this election, just trust me.
Y’all can have fun playing moral high ground playing the same old lines every election like a broken record. Waste your time playing politics and voting for the lesser evil. For me, if its a choice between two evils, I think I’d rather not pick.
I didn’t say anything about voting, I’m just trying to be realistic about who else is looking forward to the collapse of the current system. If you want to roll the dice on that then you should at least be honest about who else is sitting at the table.
Of course! And if you don’t pick, no one at all gets hurt or affected by that choice in any way! It totally only affects you! It’s not like you have a moral obligation to not actively make the lives of others worse, right? It’s not like choosing to not vote is also a choice that requires moral justification! Refusing to act is totally different morally than acting in a way that harms others! I can’t wait to feel so right when I watch the news of the military camps and the anti-trans lynch mobs! Sure, I mean I didn’t take 5 fucking minutes out of one day every 4 years to mark an X on a sheet of paper that could have prevented that from happening to them, but it’s not like I had any power to do anything about it, right? … Right?
I am not doing nothing, I’m just not voting. And you are a privileged asshole to think I am not affected. I choose to make a difference outside of electoral politics. Thats your issue. You think the only way to make a difference and protect people is by voting.
You think it’s impossible to make a difference by voting and also by doing other things. I think voting to keep things from getting worse is the bare fucking minimum. If you can’t even take a few minutes out of one day to mark a sheet of paper to keep things from getting worse I don’t believe for a second are you doing anything to make things better.
I will not sacrifice trans people, genocide continues under both yet only Trump would ban HRT or make their lives even worse. It’s something that’s better than nothing. By design, Americans have two choices, take the one that keeps minorities alive. (They probably agree with your hopes, as a bonus)
A bit ago I interacted with an anarchist who refused to vote because he had everything he wanted now (right to gay marriage, specifically) but he didn’t even know that’s only accessible due to a supreme court ruling and not a law. It can disappear just as quick as abortion. Just token vote for the party that may manage to codify that into law or at least won’t ban it. People will die without marriage equality or HRT, they need to live their life before your fabled collapse occurs.
If you can’t manage empathy, you are a libertarian in the “fuck you, I got mine” worst way. No dreaming of the collapse, no advocating for radical change, just a libertarian. Be better, do both harm reduction now and foment the future collapse.
I do harm reduction in the streets. You do harm reduction by sucking politicians dicks. Don’t act like the anti-trans shit Trump does doesnt affect me.
God’s most in denial libertarian 😞 refuses to check a box on some paper every 4 years because of anarchist cosplay mind gymnastics that’s come to the conclusion if you vote at all you’re whole heartedly endorsing candidates while simultaneously slowing the collapse into bloodshed where the fabled anarcho-society can rise from the ashes of every trans person and many more.
Your logic lacks empathy, you need to do introspection to make your beliefs consistently ethical. Claiming to help people on the ground while not helping people on the ground indirectly with basically no effort is incongruous - even if you believe the government should not exist, it does rn, and we live in a society where it can hurt or help the same people you claim to. Nudge the fabric of society that you interact with through fantastically minimal effort and never tell another anarcho-soul in your Matrix chat if they’re still doing a not voting circlejerk because goberment exist grr
Are you okay? This reads as unhinged.
Of course! And the way we do that is let the fascists win! It all makes sense now! We just have to let enough of our trans homies die and let Trump use the military to round up millions of people and put them in camps first! It’s the blood sacrifice we need in order to usher in the (insert political system most Americans don’t understand in the slightest and have negative views toward that will totally improve if we are instrumental in letting Hitler 2.0 win) revolution! It’s just a good thing I am privileged enough to not have to be one of those rounded up in camps or lynched in the streets or die during the civil war / revolution! Why doesn’t anyone else see it? We just have to deliberately let enough people die first in order for the politics-fairies to grant me the exact system I imagine!
/S
I’d love to see what your suggestion is for “working to disempower and destroy” the systems exactly while letting fascists take power. It’s not like we could ever do both, right? We could never vote to keep things from actively getting worse and also advocate for a better world, right? It’s not like the Dems would move right if they lost this time like they have done every single time before, right?
I’m saying this one more time, so all you libshit assholes understand. I am not unaffected by the election results. I work through direct action to help others. I work to build systems of cooperation and disempower state and capitalist systems at a grassroots level. You can do things without the state and I wont let democrats and the government hold me and the people I care about hostage. My rights and others rights will not be a carrot on a stick for politicians to dangle in front of my face. If any of you actually cared about stopping fascism and protecting people you would be on the ground feeding and defending the homeless, building radical unions, doing community defense, and more. You all forget that voting never stopped fascism before, and it won’t now. You are no better than the conservatives and fascists as you both threaten and abuse those that don’t want to follow your regime.
Oh yes, the guy who can’t even take 5 minutes to vote is totally devoting his free time to making things better. Do you think any of the other shit you talked about will be easier under Trump than Harris? You are choosing to let things get worse for the people you claim to care about just so you can feel morally superior by not “participating”. News flash, choosing to not vote is still a choice with consequences for the people you are virtue signalling about. Choosing not to pull the lever doesn’t make you not morally responsible for the people who chose not to save.
When given that choice, I vote for Jill Stein.
You are voting for Trump.
Jill Steinyou are actually voting for Trump. Stein knows where her funding comes from, and who those funders want to win, and allows that all to happen.Not trying to attack or anything, I just don’t understand the logic of voting for someone who actually is just consciously being a spoiler candidate so the worse one will win.
im sorry i love greeen policy but jill “ran the green party into the ground” stein???
Don’t forget he has bars
Obamna prisom
still don’t wanna vote? vote 3rd party!
Um, no. A 3rd party vote is literally just a vote for Drumpf💀
if you were gonna vote for trump but you vote for 3rd party, that’s a Harris vote , 9 day old account.
Pictured: Newly-unveiled biologically-engineered troops of the National Guard enforcing the new State Ideology of Obamunism in Mar-a-Lago (2009, colorized)
this is my American Dream™
And remember to vote for whoever you want. Just because you vote third party doesn’t mean your vote is wasted or to vote for somebody else because who knows who you would have voted for if it wasn’t for third party. Those people that say that shit can fuck off.
Either Harris or Trump are going to win the election. Not voting for Harris is voting for Trump. Yes, it fucking sucks, but especially if you’re a woman or a queer person, really think about whether you actually think it doesn’t matter which one wins.
Voting is not an endorsement of a candidate. It’s a tool. Don’t let them take away your rights while you’re waiting for the perfect candidate that will never come.
Harris will lose. A vote for harris is a vote for trump.
Charitable read: I think they’re talking in general, not just for the president. voting third party is actually pretty viable in certain areas of the country for certain state positions
yes but also if you’re in a swing state maybe don’t vote third party for the executive office. Rn the thrid party persidential candidates aren’t super strong, and the bulk of political momentum is bipartisan. Local and state gov is a totally different situation depending on your state.
Good point. A candidate from a party that doesn’t really have a presence in any level of government and especially zero seats in congress will probably never have a realistic chance of winning the presidential election, barring some exceptional circumstances. If you like a third party, trying to make it viable at the local level and moving up from there seems to be the only realistic option to me.
like the working families party, who acutally have some substantial influence in the new york area
empowering parties in this way could pave the way for future third party presidential candidates
Working Families is actually stronger than the democrats out here. I vote WF everywhere their name pops up. They got governors in out here in Oregon.
I’m a big supporter of the working families party. They rule. I honestly think they have the best chance of any of the third parties of eventually becoming a viable player in the American political sphere
(Also WF backed Harris/Walz, they’re not dumb enough to try to tamper with the big race.)
it’s such a smart move. best third party by far
I’m down for leaving people to vote for who they want, as long as they allow their protest votes to weigh heavily on their consciences when January comes around and we suddenly live in the fourth reich
I’ll never pretend to respect their decision. They might not even accept they were wrong when they’re inside the gas chambers. Besides, them feeling guilty is no justice for dooming people to death. It would be an injustice nobody could ever set right.
This comment has a dismissive tone to it. I’m not a fan.
I’m just being cheeky I don’t respect it either. Although I truly do hope it weighs on them
Remember: the only people who say this want to see Trump win. You can vote with your conscience all you want, but it’s only mathematically possible for only one of two parties to get elected.
If third parties or independents actually wanted a shot, they’d put in the work outside of elections, building coalitions and locally from the ground up.
That’s probably the dumbest take I have read yet. If I wanted trump to win, I would vote for him.
Your motivation doesn’t matter, only the result of your action.
Your motivation doesn’t matter, only the result of your action.
That’s a nihilistic argument. The result of human action is dying. If I had children, they will die one day regardless of what I do, regardless of what their other parent does, regardless of what their extended family does, regardless of what their teachers do, regardless of what society does.
And, yet, intentions matter. Someone voting third party because that’s what they believe in is not an immoral intention that destroys the universe.
I am not american. Next I meet a yank, I will ask him.her what s.he voted for.
If they voted for genocide I will spit on their face.
They are all so against it but have no problem voting for it. It’s disgusting really. And they have the nerve to try make me look like the bad guy in this thread. There’s a bunch of shitty people here.
You’re not a “bad guy.” You just refuse to accept reality. A fool is not a villain, but they can cause comparable damage.
Just think if everyone voted for what’s right and not because someone online is calling them a fool if they vote different.
Obviously you believe I’m not voting for what I think is right, except I actually am. I’m not Harris’ biggest fan and thought she was a mid Senator, but she was probably the conservative dem I would’ve been the least upset about in the 2020 primary. She’s far better than Biden, who only beat out the actually billionaires in my ranking.
On top of that, she manages to be the best option for president on the ballot in my state.
I despise the green party for focusing so exclusively on the presidency. It makes me think they aren’t serious about accomplishing anything outside of thoughts and prayers. On top of that, Stein is shit as an individual politician and my view of her worsens with every run.
The only other left wing 3rd party is the openly tankie party, and I’m not big on those that lend support to empires for simply not being American. I’m not voting for RFK Jr., Capitalists, or Homophobes, so Harris is actually the best choice in my view.
The president shouldn’t be as powerful or important, and quite frankly, we’ve been more successful working within the Democratic party than outside of it. The 2 party system will not go away without election reform done by working within the parties. It’s shit democracy, but the only right thing to do is play with the cards we’re dealt.
You just refuse to accept reality.
The reality is that humans are going to keep performing actions which limit their own survival.
Except it is wasted because there is literally zero chance a 3rd party candidate will win the presidency. If we’re talking lower offices, then maybe, but if you’re not voting Harris then you are directly assisting Trump.
There is value in showing third parties are growing more popular. It’s the first step that needs to happen for a third party candidate to become truely viable.
And yet, if there was ever a time where that isn’t worth it, it’s when fascists have a high chance of winning. Trump is not a right wing liberal; he wants to destroy the liberal world order that America controls just so no one can threaten his dictatorial power at home.
That may seem like it could benefit leftists elsewhere, but he wants to go to war with neighbors and bully other countries even harder than the liberal empire did. Where the American empire leaves, the Russian empire will take its place. All the while, an old man with no desire to leave a lasting legacy for his family or country is in control of the most powerful war machine on earth.
The first step that needs to happen is building up a third party through local politics, not ignoring politics for 3 years and 11 months and then suddenly expecting a third party to become viable.
Oddly enough, we don’t need advice from Democrats on how to run our party, because they want us to fail.
“If you don’t agree with me 100% you must be against me.”
Oddly enough the same thing “3rd party” voters complain about Democrats doing.
Also, for people who want to succeed it’s odd I only hear about “3rd party” in October every 4 years. I’m sure in January you’ll still be talking about the importance of building a 3rd party right?
“If you don’t agree with me 100% you must be against me.”
Here’s the electoral reality. We have a first-past-the-post, winner-take-all system. There can only be two major parties at the same time. For the Greens to win, the Democrats have to lose.
Since the Democrats don’t want to lose, they’ll do everything they can to stop the Greens. They aren’t going to be doing anything to help us. They certainly aren’t going to be dispensing friendly advice that will help us defeat them.
I’m sure in January you’ll still be talking about the importance of building a 3rd party right?
I’ll be talking about the importance of building an alternative party, yes. At usual, Democrats are projecting. They expect people to vote and then go to sleep for four years.
I’ve can’t remember how many times I’ve heard a Democrat tell me how stressed they are about the election and they can’t wait for Harris to win so that they can go forget about politics again.
Greens are activists. We know that there’s going to be a lot of work to be done for the next four years, regardless of who wins.
Except it is wasted because there is literally zero chance a 3rd party candidate will win the presidency.
Because of all the second-party candidates who are supporting trump by still voting harris while knowing a lot of people are appealed by her support for extermination.
Why are you a trump supporter?
any vote not for Harris is a vote for trump.
Not if they were gonna vote trump instead
Literally no. If they were gonna vote Trump instead but decided to go with Harris, their vote is worth the same as someone who would always vote Harris or the vote of a leftist who decided on damage reduction.
Any voting system flattens our personal motivations into a single action. Any statement you’re looking to make is moot unless you have a massive campaign to make it clear outside of the ballot box. Even then, the establishment can downplay and misinterpret your motivation as not being representative or as less important than what they want to believe.
There’s no better way to translate our will into results. Any system that doesn’t use free and fair voting can be tainted and colored by bias, making it impossible to ever undermine the will of the establishment. They will always choose to believe whatever is most convenient, but votes can deliver a reality shock that forces them to adjust their behavior, even if they never change their minds. The only other thing capable of that is violence.
for those, like me, who can’t remember where they’ve seen the original image before, it is the necrons from Warhammer 40k :)
https://warhammer40k.fandom.com/wiki/Necrons#Necrons_in_the_41st_Millennium
the last thing Mitch McConnell sees before his ping hits 8000
Ted Stevens.
“The internet… isn’t a dump truck. It’s a series of tubes.”
If you all vote for genocide american will become targets of random violence.
Just harm reduction really. Let’s say you have a random yank walking in the street. Let’s say the conservative + liberal party gets more votes than half of the US population. It become statistically likely than murdering the person would mean killing a genocider, and thus less human suffering on the long run.
I’m sorry if this offend you but it’s just facts, really
3 hour old account.
Are you having fun LARPing?
Obama stone
