Why is this bad in a nutshell.
A) The only way to control access to this feature is to lock down and phone home. If it doesn’t phone home then when someone figures out a way around your present security its possible for someone to sell said features forever. Such DRM could hurt repeatability by accident or more likely on purpose.
B) There is no reason to fail open so even if BMW is still chugging when they stop taking your cars phone calls and retires those servers you get no more feature.
C) The amount spent over the lifespan of a car wherein people opt to take care of their valuable asset absolutely dwarfs the cost able to be extracted up front
D) This functionality opens the door to a hacker not just turning off your features but turning off your car. This includes state sponsored attackers and people who are just generally pissed off at the geopolitical actions of your country of origin. If you are in the US that is a lot of fucking people.
E) Product segmentation on average increases the amount you can extract per user. Allowing segmentation by features turn on or off in software by the month it allows far greater segmentation with no reasonable expectation that the baseline will be lower. This means the lowest end user of a model pays the same for even less. The median user pays somewhat more and the max user pays a LOT more.
F) This means wholly paid for used cars now come with a car payment to the manufacturer.
Now there are half a hundred people on the boards of these companies and 338M of us in the US. 449M in the EU. There is no reason to allow this misfeature to continue to be a thing in our markets. If automakers don’t like those restrictions any one of them can opt to most of the most valuable markets in the world and find their fortunes exclusively in China while their competitors eat their former marketshare.
Forgot one that was mentioned up-thread, which was that even if you don’t pay for the fancy suspension you will still have to pay for fancy suspension parts if they break.
C and e don’t sound like bad things
All of it is a reason for people to vote not to allow it. This can be accomplished federally or via initiatives in states. If a handful states comprising 30-50% of the pop wont allow it then it will be dead.
Seems like forcing liability would be more successful
More successful or more beneficial?
Forcing the company to be liable for the data they collect would be more likely to stop them from doing it than trying to outlaw them collecting it
No it wouldn’t because poor people can trivially be kept out of court all kinds of ways from binding arbitration to half assed enforcement. As a rule if you want someone to NOT do something you have to tell them they can’t do it!
No it wouldn’t because elected officials don’t represent poor people
But we’re talking about buying new BMWs anyway. Your logic was just too stupid to not laugh at
When you need fitgirl to help you with your car.
Or an Empress. Just stay off the Telegram channel FFS.
Idk, it’s almost entertaining watching her lose her mind.
If I want drama I’ll get a Husky… Otherwise I’ll pass.
Sure, but a husky will tear up your couch.
Fuxking legend
If I were a BMW customer, I’d be suspending my purchase of their rip-off vehicles.
Oh look, another reason not to buy BMW, I’ll just add it to the other 456788656752 reasons.
I love my bmw plug in hybrid. I don’t see myself ever paying for a subscription though. Maybe if it comes with pizza, but even then it’s unlikely.
The problem is that once one manufacturer starts doing this, they’ll all do it, so you won’t even have the option of buying a new car without a subscription.
I’m so gonna install Linux on my future car
‘What do you mean the car is missing a driver?? Im sitting right here!’
If they’ll let you.
It probably already runs Linux, just hack it
In Lemmy, Linux is always the answer.
Bought a car recently and got stuck with subscriptions. Friggen sucks. Only have Apple car play for 3 years before they charge for it, heated seats I’ve got until 2027, same for heated steering wheel. Hope there’s some OBD2 hack I can apply by the time that rolls around.
What manufacturer? Name and shame.
CarPlay I can see if there’s an ongoing cost of making sure future Apple updates don’t break compatibility, but it’s very highly unlikely that will ever be an issue.
Name and shame, please. Also, did you get notified about all the subscriptions by the dealership? If yes, why did you still decide to buy it?
My job now requires my physical presence at one of their offices for compliance so in a very short time I had to buy a second car that could fit our budget. This was one of the few that could. Figured as a second car it wouldn’t be so bad.
Also the dealers swore up and down there would be no subscriptions but only after reading the fine print where these features are mentioned as “Complimentary for 36 months”
Did you call out the dealers on their lies?
Or just drive through the dealership’s front window and then declare “I’d like a refund, please”. A few of these occurring nationwide and they’d halt their bullshit.
I’m glad my current car is a 2015 Mazda. It’s recent enough to have a touch screen and Bluetooth, but not so recent that it’s got an LTE/5G radio that can phone home and let them sell my driving data to insurance companies or force subscription payments on me. When I get my next car in a decade or so, hopefully I can import a cheap Chinese EV that’s either easy to jailbreak, or doesn’t have any of that bullshit included.
I’d sooner hack the car
deleted by creator
BMW’s are pure over engineered garbage.
The Buick 3800 had a tube like that on top, it would crack from thermal stresses and piss out hot coolant. There was an aluminum aftermarket replacement like you describe but it was Dorman and a cheap fix. Buick also addressed the problem in later versions. I miss that engine.
I used to own a W124 series Benz (bought used for 5% of sticker price, I ain’t no fauntelroy). Nearly everything on it was redundant or excessively skookum.
When systems that weren’t as rugged started going down, like the vacuum controllers for doors or the 4matic computer etc, the car still worked safely with reduced convenience. A few minor design flaws like the wiring harness but that’s it. Room to work under the hood, too.
It was built in '93 when the engineers still ran the company.
Current main driver is the super reliable '03 CRV.
Oh look, another reason not to buy
BMWa CARWhile this is completely true, it’s a bit tone-deaf. Fuck cars, but many people barely have a choice because their public transport consists of a handful of busses that come once an hour and nothing is close by.
As an aside, I spend a whopping total of about $1/day on maintenance and electricity for my electric cargo bike. I go about 17 km each way to work and the funny thing is it’s only about 10 mins longer than driving, lol
Imagine a bus coming once an hour… try only twice a day for the entire county… early morning and late night.
Yeah i know many people dont really have much of a choice, see the thread nex to your comment. I was more intending to talk shit about modern cars that all seem to have this shit.
Yeah I’ll just sprout wings and fly everywhere.
Please do if possible.
Seriously tho, was it so hard to understand that i was pointing out that all big car companies are starting to do this?
If this is a reason not to buy a BMW then its a reason not to buy any modern car. Which it is imo.
The problem is a huge number of cars were removed and destroyed which would otherwise have been in the used market. It’s a big reason why even used cars are priced so high. Buying used isn’t what it used to be.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Car_Allowance_Rebate_System
And they want to do it again not because it helped anyone get a car but because it let them make the prices so stupidly high.
I agree that new cars suck but they’re removing the stocks of used cars that would be worth buying at any price and at our expense.
Agree with that yep, its also already been shown years ago that modding used cars into electric cars is totally doable, economic and saves fuckloads of resources. Same thing happening with tractors too btw. Lots of farmers are buying up old tractors because they can actually repair them on site when they break down. With modern ones they have to wait for some asshole from john deer to come in with a debugging laptop to do the exact same thing for lots of money and downtime.
a NEW car
ftfy then
Next up, Anti-lock brakes as a Subscription Service. ASS.
The level of subscriptions has become insane
“We’re pivoting from serving peasants to fleecing rich dumbasses that subscribe and pay monthly fees for features built into the car.”
And they’ll make money doing it. Because there will never be a shortage of people with more money than sense.
eh, rich people car shop as well, and there is plenty of competition in that market. of course some people will still opt for BMW, we just have to hope enough go elsewhere to make them lose marketshare. but… it’s not looking good so far.
Ngl, i don’t see how bmw gets any sales when Mercedes exists. If you are actually rich a Mercedes is almost objectively the better vehicle, if you are just trying to show off the Mercedes is a better status symbol too.
If once you do not succeed, just try again next year. They tried and backtracked putting heated seats behind a paywall not even a year ago see here.
Unless laws are made to make this fundamentally illegal, they’ll just keep pushing until it sticks. And once one manufacturer succeeds, they’ll all follow.
Since 2019 you have to pay 800$ a year to have your bmw use adaptive drive, 150$ to use the app.
We are pirating car suspension now holy shit
😂😂😂 good ol’ pirate bay
This sure as fuck isn’t the best timeline, but it does have its moments
You wouldn’t download a car
Brick it by bios update:)))
I would actually. A 1967 Shelby Cobra kit car if I had a choice.
Lmk if you find out how
M2, pls
You wouldn’t download a configuration profile for your cars suspension!
People stealing owners’ property will be sent to the gulag!
TPB go brrrrrrrrrr
Should be a nottheonion article
We need a FOSS car…
I can easily foresee the drm services or servers being shutdown, like the Microsoft music server…most you bought can no longer be used if moved.
Eventually they will “retire” this model and shut down servers. Making the car maybe driveable, but won’t have stuff you paid for I bet.
Plus, eventually someone will unlock this with a hacked car software patch anyway.
Insurance company’s will start testing for hacks and denying coverage.
Anyone that buys a car that has shit like this is a fool.
The article implies nobody even knew it already had this functionality. I’m sure the customers weren’t told either.
I’ve heard for years that BMW was doing shit like this. Heated seats is what it started with. Toyota did it with remote start but I think they backed down after the outrage.
True, however we must fight this because otherwise, when you need to buy a car, there won’t be an option without a shitty subscription attached
Remember that some of is live in shitty cities with bad or no alternative ways of moving around
I agree totally, but I don’t think it will matter with new vehicles. They’re going to track you and spay on you more than your phone. I will forever drive old stuff. I’m a mechanic so that’s a super easy option for me. I won’t own anything new enough to spy on me, my car will be MY car.
100%, I am not a mechanic but I like auto work and have learned most of the basics. It is not really enough to own an older car forever but it should help out to some extent.
If you ever think you’re in over your head, just remember, It’s just nuts and bolts.
We start again with a strange Germany in Europe:)
Germany; don’t do this please…
Just don’t buy it
That strategy repeatedly fails, companies in the same market will see it extracting more profit and start doing it too.
Then don’t buy their products either.
Just don’t buy any car if they all do this in the future? People need a better answer, don’t find comfort in “just don’t buy it”.
How about you just stop consoooming. There will always be cars without this and if there aren’t: there are more sustainable modes of transportation anyways.
Got it, don’t buy cars built after 2010.
Probably safe up to 2016 as long as it’s not luxury brand
One of our cars is a 2016 GM and I just unscrewed the cell antenna instead of ripping out the cell module. Tracking disabled, or at least unreliable. The subscription nav is useless and easy to ignore. I would like to figure out how to prevent the siriusxm ads built into the infotainment system, still.
I look forward to better infotainment hacks down the road.
Got it, thanks
big oil licking their lips and nodding their heads
Are there any electric cars that aren’t glorified smartphones on wheels? Something a grandma can drive without ending up in the wrong menu.
My wife used to drive an electric Smart Car for her work. It had a range of 60 miles (less in the winter), and she called it a glorified golf cart. But it was perfect for the 20 or so miles she’d drive each day.
The Bolt is ok. It has a screen and Android Auto and stuff, but I only use it for Android Auto navigation and energy stats when I’m curious. For pretty much everything else, there are good ol’ fashioned buttons.
Oh, it does have OnStar and some stuff associated with that, but GM discontinued the worst of it after a class action lawsuit.
Not necessarily. My 2015 SEAT (for folks in the North America: That’s basically Volkswagen) is one of the latest cars that do not completely fuck you over. TPMS is passive, so you don’t need expensive sensors. You can also update the maps on your own (OK, here they pull you over if you don’t know the simple trick). Parts are also cheap.
no, SEAT IS VW
I own a Seat Ibiza 2021. To me it’s one of the last Ibiza to give value for your money. Totally reliable vehicles.
Import something old and fun! Cars from smaller countries have lower mileage and can be cheap because they aren’t as valuable as a comparable car from the US. It isn’t hard to find a 25 year old car with about 50,000 miles on it.
JDM cars are especially nice now because of how weak the YEN is. Look outside the popular JDM cars and there are tons of things with easy to find parts for dirt cheap.
Or hell, get a not top trim of a popular model, and you can get something cheap. Want a station wagon built on the same platform as the Nissan Skyline? The Automatic Stageas are cheaper because tuners don’t want them.
Nissan Rasheens with the 1500cc engine are easy to maintain and have an engine that was used in some American cars, get the first true AWD CUV for about $5000 plus import fees.
Another cheap option is a Toyota Caldina, get a reliable awd station wagon with a nice interior for 5 or 6 grand including import fees. (Avoid the 2000ish GTT version with a turbo, turbo manifold is prone to warping on that engine)
Where are you finding things like this? What’s parts availability like?
Carfromjapan.com has the best search features I’ve found, once you know what you’re looking for https://www.goo-net-exchange.com/ is also nice because they translate the car condition sheets.
Parts availability depends on the car. For the Rasheen for example most of the engine parts can be found at any parts store for the 1500 and 2000 cc engine versions cause those engines were also in American cars. I’ve also found English websites that are easy to order just about any parts you want for a Rasheen including body panels.
Once you find something that interests you just Google that car name parts and you can usually find someone talking online about how owning that car has been for them.
I used picknbuy24 to get a Nissan Tiida for $1200 USD with like 25k miles. Parts are normally the same as they are on already imported models.
