Why does everyone suddenly seem to think it’s ok to say the R word again? I feel like I hadn’t heard it in years and suddenly everyone around me is using it, and I see it on Reddit all the time. Am I imagining it? Is anyone seeing this? I don’t even know what to say when it’s suddenly just everyone in a group and everyone acts like it’s normal.
You’re not imagining it.
I’ve seen it (and many other ableist slurs) used far too often, especially for a site that is generally supposed to be more left leaning (which tbf isn’t saying much when it comes to combatting ableism because we seem to have very few true allies) but is also full of tech-bros, who love punching down at others based on perceived intelligence, and who also have quite a lot of crossover with 4chan type cesspits, so sadly it isn’t unexpected.
I call it out it when I see it, and generally block and report, but what I find most frustrating is that mods throughout lemmy/fediverse (again, even on the most supposedly left leaning instances like lemmy.ml) just ignore the reports and don’t remove the comments (I know people are busy, I don’t expect instant action, I give it a week or two in general before I check the modlog).
I’ve had to block several large communities, most that I’m actually interested in (mostly tech and science related, again, places where people love feeling superior based on perceived intelligence), because I get the message - making people like me feel safe and included isn’t a priority in those spaces, so I refuse to occupy them.
Whether the privileged group accept it or not, that is the result of using slurs - making already marginalised people feel unwelcome and excluded.
And when they tell me not to be so easily offended, I link this (or maybe this or this) with the full knowledge that they will probably never read it, but with the hope that someone else might, and that it might make them reconsider their use of certain words (though I don’t hold my breath in anticipation of society at large giving a shit).
Those are some awesome resources, yoinking those for sure.
Ableism and fatmisia are some the last bastions of acceptable and casual bigotry, so they are for sure the hardest to get rid of. Usually when you bring up the eugenics origin, at least for people around me, folks tend to take a step back. Often I lead with that.
Fat shaming is likely to be the most difficult to combat, because it’s based on an unhealthy condition anyone can slip into, so it has a warning component similar to drunk-driving shaming, the Darwin awards, various “fails”, etc. where people suffer the consequences of their own choices.
I am not saying this is what you believe, but you’re right that people for sure over simplify it into that, and say things like “just eat less and exercise more.” The truth is much more complicated. There are a ton of factors involved and often people have unrelated conditions they can’t get help with because doctors will just say “you just need to lose weight.”
https://www.npr.org/2022/06/23/1107166691/medical-bias-against-obesity-is-preventing-patients-from-receiving-proper-care
That and a lot of “overweight” people are not unhealthy.
https://www.science.org/content/article/obesity-doesn-t-always-mean-ill-health-here-s-what-scientists-are-learning
As usual, the truth is far less cut and dry as people think, and should just stop shaming people for it.
The more the merrier!
Yup, the other day I had to really quickly back out of some comments sections on articles related to fast food because the comments were so full of fat shaming it made me rage. People don’t think twice about either.
In my experience they get even more defensive, because eugenics is something they recognise as bad, but not their casual ableism, or the existence of a relationship between the two… But then these are randoms on the internet I’m talking about, not people actually close to me, they’d probably be much more reasonable if it ever came to it lol
You have inspired an infodump, some links specifically go in to the eugenics connection, others are a bit more broad (I also have a bunch about the relationship between capitalism, “productivity”, and ableism, and some on the myth of independence, which I wasn’t sure were closely related enough, but am more than happy to share as well!) if you want more articles to yoink:
https://www.drakemusic.org/blog/nim-ralph/understanding-disability/
https://www.yorku.ca/edu/unleading/ableism/ (the entire project is worth a look)
https://liminalnest.wordpress.com/2018/06/23/intelligence-is-a-myth-on-deconstructing-the-roots-of-cognitive-ableism/
https://www.northwestern.edu/onebook/the-reluctant-mr-darwin/essays/darwin-morality.html
https://www.theguardian.com/science/occams-corner/2013/may/09/evolutionary-theory-gone-wrong-darwin
https://web.archive.org/web/20230605065733/https://ollibean.com/intelligence-is-an-ableist-concept/
https://disabledfeminists.com/2009/10/23/ableist-word-profile-intelligence/ (the entire blog is worth a look)
https://gracelapointe.medium.com/some-thoughts-on-online-ableism-424e26f1bb2a
https://everydayfeminism.com/2015/09/symptoms-executive-dysfunction/
https://www.forbes.com/sites/andrewpulrang/2019/12/27/ableist-narratives-that-poison-disability-policy-and-disabled-peoples-lives/
Hell yes, thanks for the resources!
Sure thing, I’m always happy to share useful info!
Also, was the “hell yes” to more links or just in general? You’re good either way, don’t worry… 😂
To more links!
Cool. I figured I’d just troll my bookmarks and paste anything related, but there was more than I realised lol. I did cut back, but this still feels like a bit much, sorry 😂
Language related:
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/331107477_SaytheWord_A_Disability_Culture_Commentary_on_the_Erasure_of_Disability
https://fightingtalk.substack.com/p/disability-is-not-a-dirty-word
https://30daysofautism.blog/2023/03/21/lets-talk-about-language-is-disability-a-bad-word/
https://sailhelps.org/so-whats-wrong-with-the-word-handicapped/
https://everydayfeminism.com/2014/05/grammar-snobbery/
https://medium.com/no-prescription-needed/grammar-the-worlds-most-under-recognized-social-construct-a54e096ecc9c
https://theautisticadvocate.com/functioning-labels-why-you-shouldnt-be-using-them-thanks-a-bunch-terminology-dudes/
https://www.ncmh.info/2019/04/04/fallacy-functioning-labels/
https://graymattersmd.com/functioning-labels-autism/
https://web.archive.org/web/20231127173144/https://thebodyisnotanapology.com/magazine/15-common-phrases-that-are-way-more-ableist-than-you-may-realize/
https://everydayfeminism.com/2015/08/alternatives-to-oppressive-language/
https://web.archive.org/web/20201108200517/https://raddle.me/f/Illegalism/77441/40-alternatives-to-ableist-and-oppressive-words
https://www.autistichoya.com/p/ableist-words-and-terms-to-avoid.html
https://www.learningforjustice.org/magazine/no-joking-matter-words-and-disability
Capitalism/“productivity” related:
https://dailyfreepress.com/2020/11/19/mind-your-business-ableism-is-rooted-in-capitalism/
https://atmos.earth/productivity-culture-ableism-ecofeminism-capitalism-the-slow-grind/
https://thestrand.ca/capitalism-ableism-and-the-glamorization-of-productivity/
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2021/09/24/pers-s24.html
https://www.npr.org/2021/09/24/1039676445/laziness-does-not-exist-devon-price
Independence related:
https://web.archive.org/web/20240224035644/https://thebodyisnotanapology.com/magazine/independence-is-an-ableist-myth-unlocking-the-power-of-community-in-healing/
https://leavingevidence.wordpress.com/2011/02/12/changing-the-framework-disability-justice/
Covid related:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/andrewpulrang/2022/01/31/6-ways-responses-to-covid-19-have-been-ableist-and-why-it-matters/
https://www.mencap.org.uk/press-release/eight-10-deaths-people-learning-disability-are-covid-related-inequality-soars
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2024/03/09/xdvx-m09.html?pk_kwd=wsws
https://www.disabilitynewsservice.com/it-was-emergency-planning-that-was-vulnerable-during-covid-not-disabled-people-inquiry-is-told/
https://www.donotpanic.news/p/its-all-out-war-on-the-vulnerable?utm_source=publication-search
https://www.donotpanic.news/p/mass-disabling-event-denial?utm_source=publication-search
Internalized ableism:
https://www.neurodiverging.com/what-is-internalized-ableism-neurodivergent-people-need-to-know/
https://www.autisticparentsuk.org/post/overcoming-internalised-ableism
Other/general:
https://www.fullspectrumchildcare.com/blog/to-be-a-radical-crip-and-the-power-in-identifying-as-one
https://deathsbywelfare.org/
https://leavingevidence.wordpress.com/2017/08/06/forced-intimacy-an-ableist-norm/
https://privateplacespublicspacesblog.wordpress.com/about-the-project/
https://www.euronews.com/2023/06/05/i-see-the-scar-and-i-want-to-die-why-the-eu-allows-sterilisation-of-women-with-disabilitie
https://blueannoyed.wordpress.com/2024/04/30/welcome-to-the-crip-warehouse/
https://www.womenspress.com/what-can-feminists-make-of-the-eugenicist-history-of-abortion/
https://level.medium.com/disability-justice-is-an-essential-part-of-abolishing-police-and-prisons-2b4a019b5730
https://www.upress.umn.edu/book-division/images/other-images/9781452963495_intro.pdf
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/354037224_Destroying_Disability_Expanding_Application_of_the_Genocide_Convention
https://alexschadenberg.blogspot.com/2024/03/scotlands-deceptive-euthanasia-bill.html?m=1&mibextid=K35XfP
https://disability-memorial.org/
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/dec/09/from-the-wheelchair-using-black-panther-to-the-cripple-suffragette-10-heroes-of-the-disabled-rights-movement
https://www.theguardian.com/money/2020/jun/24/you-cant-pay-cash-here-how-cashless-society-harms-most-vulnerable
https://themighty.com/topic/disability/tweet-thread-straw-bans-disability/
https://medium.com/@thorafelicitybell/our-environmentalism-has-to-be-intersectional-4cf824ab2aa4
https://www.eater.com/2018/7/19/17586742/plastic-straw-ban-disabilities
https://www.bvanudgeconsulting.com/bias-of-the-week/just-world-hypothesis/
lol, It is not too much at all. I mean, I won’t be reading it all at once, but I love having resources
It’s always nice to meet a fellow link collector lol
I’ll admit it might be a while since I’ve read some of these myself (or in the case of the book pdf - not fully yet) so they might not all be up to date, but the gist should still stand.
Great ending to that piece on offense vs reinforcement of systemic oppression. Since this is the Chat community, I am interested in discussing some of the arguments in the pieces you linked.
In the Affinity piece, Stop Using Intelligence-Based Insults If You Care About Disabled People, they make the argument that essentially any intelligence-based insult is inherently ableist, even if not deployed against someone with a disability, but then use WW1-era eugenicists’ attempts to weaponize intelligence to attack the idea of intelligence at all, claiming
This is quite the claim, given that ‘intelligence’ as a concept has existed for hundreds or even thousands of years, and the author gives no historical evidence of it being founded with that meaning. It most certainly did not originate with Alfred Binet and Theodore Simon, as the author tries to imply at the end.
It also somewhat contradicts the second link, Alternatives to ableist terms, which lists ‘ignorant’ and ‘inept’ (among others) as acceptable replacements for ‘stupid’. If any insult to someone’s intelligence is ableist, how can you offer replacements without them being ableist as well?
All words that can be used to attack a person, will always be more effective and more-often-deployed against marginalized groups, because of the intrinsic power disparity that exists that makes a group marginalized. And some should be marginalized (e.g. Nazis). And society has and will always need to attack people, because people do commit acts that need to be called out and even shamed over, to dissuade them and others from repeating them. Social groups that cannot attack intrusion are vulnerable to subversion by anyone willing to break with their social norms.
For instance, in the case of the now-toast GOP ghoul who insisted that women’s bodies can “shut down” pregnancies resulting from “legitimate r***”, is calling it “misinformed”, “incorrect”, “mean”, or “silly”, really the appropriate reaction? None of those convey, through their tone or meaning, the seriousness of the breach of acceptability that his statement is. Sure, they are correct, but it certainly doesn’t signal to anyone else that they’re going to face a harsh reprimand if they echo his rhetoric?
There was quite a lot of ink spilt publicly shaming him, not so much with technical refutations of the ways he is scientifically incorrect, but by viciously attacking his intelligence and character. He lost his reelection bid following that incident, but would he have if he had simply been called “misinformed”?
The Words and Offense piece differentiates between “oppressive slurs”, and non-oppressive ones:
But the Affinity piece does not seem to distinguish between them?
Is all language that attacks a person inherently bad? And if so, does that mean that it is never appropriate to attack someone (verbally), even in defense, even to stop them normalizing harmful rhetoric that “mobilize[s] an entire society in violent hate”?
I’m seriously not debating this with someone trying so hard to justify continuing to use intelligence based insults that they literally compare disabled people to Nazis (who are not, and never have been a marginalised and oppressed group like the disabled people they literally mass murdered. Fuck you) to try and make their logic work.
If you are actually willing and able to set your defensiveness and biases aside, feel free to read through the links I left in reply Vodulas, or continue to do your own research in to what disabled people have to say about the matter, not those who aren’t directly impacted.
Either way, I am here to reassure a comrade, not philosophise with ableds about ableism, you either listen to disabled people and do your best to be an ally, or you don’t, that’s your choice.
Whoa, I was not “comparing disabled people to Nazis”, I said that Nazis should be an oppressed and marginalized group.
I literally was quoting the links you recommended to read!
There is a disparity in YOUR SOURCES between how they are discussing slurs, and I am asking you what YOU believe, between those sources, is the answer:
I’ve removed my first comment, since it was too unproductive.
fwiw you’ve conveyed the same general question i have about the situation, albeit far more eloquently than i would have been able to
i am totally down to stop using words that disabled people find offensive, but i need alternatives to express that someone is being needlessly / purposely ignorant or otherwise harmful and is generally worthy of scorn and contempt
which isn’t to say that providing that is the onus on disabled people (it’s really not, their only real obligation is to express their experiences)… but it does make it a lot easier to action on the request
it’s also kind of interesting to approach this conversation both as an outsider, but also as someone who these words do apply to in some capacity